Rheinmetall chief Papperger: "Robots will come"

Germany wants to significantly expand its defence capabilities. But it is no longer just about more ammunition and missiles. Air defence, drones and new technologies such as humanoid robots and space systems are also playing an increasingly important role.

ADVERTISEMENT

ADVERTISEMENT

Rheinmetall chief executive Armin Papperger talks about the rearmament drive, current bottlenecks – and which weapon systems could prove decisive in the future.

At the keel-laying of the third Class 424 fleet service ship in Wolgast, we spoke to Papperger about Germany’s arms production, the role of the Skyranger and the weapons of the future.

Euronews: Mr Papperger, in March you said missile stockpiles were worryingly low. What is the situation now?

Papperger: I think that is still the case. You simply cannot ramp up missile production that quickly, and that is why we at Rheinmetall are launching a major investment programme – and not just us, many other manufacturers as well.

There are huge bottlenecks when it comes to rocket motors, but also warheads, and we need to get much faster here if we are to bring Germany, but also Europe and NATO, back up to a target level that will be adequate should we come under threat.

Euronews: Where do things stand with the Skyranger? The systems have been ordered, but will they arrive on time? How quickly is this moving now?

Papperger: With Skyranger – and this is really a narrative that keeps coming up – the contract stipulates that we are to start series deliveries in 2027. And those deliveries will take place; at the moment we are only dealing with minimal delays.

There are some technologies we have to update: the chassis, the radar technology and the missiles that need to be integrated.

But I am firmly convinced that together with the BAAINBw (the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support), and with the ministry as well, we will find a good solution in this area.

Our people are working day and night on this and, as you know, capacity in the Skyranger segment is being ramped up massively. From the end of next year we will be building – or will be able to build – up to 400 a year. So I really have no concerns on that front.

Euronews: There is a joint venture for deep-strike capabilities. How far along is that?

Papperger: The joint venture we have is, on the one hand, with Destinus, and on the other it is the project we are doing with Lockheed Martin. With Lockheed Martin we are working in the field of artillery rockets. We are developing the cruise missiles together with Destinus. These two joint ventures are in the absolute final phase before signing, and we expect to receive the first order for the cruise missiles by the end of this year or the beginning of next year.

Euronews: Shouldn’t we be producing simpler systems, but in larger numbers? Isn’t that what the war in Ukraine shows?

Papperger: We are doing that as well, but in some areas it simply doesn’t help me. If you look at the performance of the Skyranger today, it can shoot down a missile flying at Mach 3. You cannot do that with an interceptor round, and you cannot do it with a basic system.

And if you talk to the Inspector of the German Army today, he will tell you: "In two years’ time the threat landscape will look completely different." The Skyranger is genuinely a system with multiple capabilities. Our interceptor solutions or simpler systems cannot offer that.

We also have, for example, ".50 guns" with which we can shoot down light drones, category 1 drones. But once you are up against, say, jet-powered drones, things become extremely difficult and you can hardly fight them with that. That is why we believe a sustainable solution is the better option.

Euronews: How big a driver of employment are the defence industry and Rheinmetall in particular?

Papperger: I do think we are an important engine for jobs. At the moment we employ around 34,000 people at Rheinmetall, not counting the civilian sector. We are growing by a net 10,000 or so a year, and our aim is to reach 70,000 by 2030, with a supply chain that accounts for another 210,000 people. So if you add that up, you are looking at almost 300,000 people. That is a jobs engine.

Euronews: How quickly can arms and ammunition production be ramped up – for companies like Rheinmetall?

Papperger: We are already doing it. We have demonstrated that with ammunition, for instance. In medium-calibre ammunition we have gone from under one million rounds to four million. In artillery ammunition from 70,000 to 1.5 million rounds. In tank ammunition up to 240,000 rounds, from 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 rounds, depending on the year. So we are doing it. And what we are doing now is doubling our truck output.

In other words, the number of logistics vehicles and tactical vehicles is now being more than doubled. So we are acting. At the moment, though, we do not have the orders to do even more. Rheinmetall has a six-year investment programme worth 30 billion euros, and what we are investing right now is enormous. That is why it is so important to send a signal like the one we sent again today: that the minister is here, that he is personally engaged, and that we are not only building up capacity but also ensuring that it is used on a sustainable basis, that people have work.

For me, that was a very strong signal, a very positive signal, and it also reassures me somewhat that the federal government is really living up to its responsibilities here.

Euronews: What is coming next? Drones have been a major topic lately. What comes after that? Space? Or is that already the case? Or will it be combat robots, humanoid robots?

Papperger: Robots will come, that is absolutely clear. We have a research centre in Bremen focusing on humanoid robots. We are working on them. We do not yet have any series-production products, which is why we have not gone public with this yet. But we are investing a lot of money in this field. Space is another area where we are investing heavily – in satellite construction on the one hand, and in communications processing on the other.

This means that all the information we receive from satellites should be processed properly. Drones will stay, and everything else will stay as well – because it is needed. For combined-arms operations you need artillery, armoured vehicles, conventional ammunition, drones and missiles.

The only question now is how much you need of each. You need a mix. And that will change. In other words, the quantities in each segment will be different from today.

On our own behalf: you can also watch the latest Euronews exclusive report on the German tank brigade in Lithuania: